removing front drive shaft & axles on 04 rainier

C

cachestalker

Member
Jan 19, 2014
13
First off, I hope I am posting in the right place; this is my first time to post on a forum so please be gentle... :wink:

I have an 04 Rainier CXL that has a bad front differential. The left bearing is roaring horribly (left seal leaks grease too) and I'm pretty possitive the the carrier is shot... :sadcry:

So here is my question, can I remove the 2 axle shafts and the front drive shaft until I can save the money to have the diff replaced??? I have seen other forums that say you will lose park if you remove the drive shaft... This is my wife's daily driver and it could be 3 or 4 months before I can have it fixed; I want it to be safe to drive until repairs are made...

Thanks in advance for any help...
 
cachestalker said:
First off, I hope I am posting in the right place; this is my first time to post on a forum so please be gentle... :wink:

I have an 04 Rainier CXL that has a bad front differential. The left bearing is roaring horribly (left seal leaks grease too) and I'm pretty possitive the the carrier is shot... :sadcry:

So here is my question, can I remove the 2 axle shafts and the front drive shaft until I can save the money to have the diff replaced??? I have seen other forums that say you will lose park if you remove the drive shaft... This is my wife's daily driver and it could be 3 or 4 months before I can have it fixed; I want it to be safe to drive until repairs are made...

Thanks in advance for any help...
Click to expand...

Whoever told you you wouldn't be able to use the Park gear without your front differential is a fool, and you should not take any more advice from them. The parking pawl is in the transmission (always is in automatics, may be some special exceptions), and if you're in 2HI (front prop disabled) how would the pawl put stopping power to the front wheels anyway?


If selectable 4x4:
I believe it may be possible to disable the two CV shafts by removing them, then turn the transfer case to 2HI to disable the front prop. This would remove all movement in the front differential, but it's not necessary to remove the front prop as long as you put it in 2HI.

If AWD:
Removing the front prop may also need to be done, however I am unsure of how this would affect the system - specifically, the transfer case - trying to put torque up-front with nothing there to receive the power. Someone greater than I in this knowledge will probably be able to help.
 
You definitely CANNOT just remove the axle shafts and then drive it. The CV joint that is bolted through the hub bearing also keeps that bearing together and gives proper bearing preload. The only way you could do this is to buy two of the fake axle plugs used in the 2WD trucks to bolt in there or outer CV joint pots without the guts. Something has to bolted in there to keep the bearing together.

Now, are you absolutely sure it's the differential itself? Sounds more like it's the wheel hub bearing by the description of the noise. Unless it has run dry, the differential has a fairly low failure rate. Does it still have lots of oil in it? If you grab the axle going into the left of the diff, does it move other than a little in and out? Up. down and around? Even with a leaking seal, it should not leak so much at first that it would run out of oil.
 
Well I was half-right in removing the CV shafts, but thanks Mooseman for clarifying what else exactly would need to be done to disable the front diff. While there's still money tied into this interim solution, it's likely MUCH less than getting the diff fixed (if that's the issue).

Go to YouTube and look up how to check if you have a bad wheel hub assembly, there's a video in particular by 1AAuto which shows how to check. Getting ready for bed or I'd look it up and link it. You will need to have jack stands available to do this, ramps won't work and doing it on just a jack is very dangerous.
 
IllogicTC said:
Whoever told you you wouldn't be able to use the Park gear without your front differential is a fool, and you should not take any more advice from them. The parking pawl is in the transmission (always is in automatics, may be some special exceptions), and if you're in 2HI (front prop disabled) how would the pawl put stopping power to the front wheels anyway?
Click to expand...


Yea, I saw the park thing on one of those websites that you ask an "expert" a question and if you like his answer then you can pay him... I feel kinda dumb for even putting it in the original post...


Mooseman said:
You definitely CANNOT just remove the axle shafts and then drive it. The CV joint that is bolted through the hub bearing also keeps that bearing together and gives proper bearing preload. The only way you could do this is to buy two of the fake axle plugs used in the 2WD trucks to bolt in there or outer CV joint pots without the guts. Something has to bolted in there to keep the bearing together.

Now, are you absolutely sure it's the differential itself? Sounds more like it's the wheel hub bearing by the description of the noise. Unless it has run dry, the differential has a fairly low failure rate. Does it still have lots of oil in it? If you grab the axle going into the left of the diff, does it move other than a little in and out? Up. down and around? Even with a leaking seal, it should not leak so much at first that it would run out of oil.
Click to expand...


Oh, I was under the impression that only the 2WD TBSS had the fake axle plugs and the standard 2WD models did not... I know the bearings have 3 bolts on the back to bolt it on so I thought that is what held it together...

Guess I will try to pull the CV joints apart and go that route, but what about the front prop shaft? Should I remove it or leave it be?

Here is some back info on how I was informed of the problem... (keep in mind, this is my wife's description to me) She came home from work and told me that a few days ago when she was turning hard left that it felt like the front wheels were binding and she could her some thumping noise and all of a sudden a loud pop... (So now it is the weekend, 3 days after she had the issue) So I go out and jack up all 4 wheels, turn the left front tire and nothing else turns... I start the truck, put it drive and both prop shafts turn, rear wheels turn, but neither front wheels turn... That is when I noticed the oil leak, so I took out the plug and stuck my finger in the hole and could not touch grease at all... I filled it up, but the damage was already done...

I know I'm an idiot for not noticing the leak earlier, but the wife and I work different shifts and basically only see each other on the weekend...

Anyway, thanks for replying and all the info...
 
Mooseman said:
You definitely CANNOT just remove the axle shafts and then drive it. The CV joint that is bolted through the hub bearing also keeps that bearing together and gives proper bearing preload. The only way you could do this is to buy two of the fake axle plugs used in the 2WD trucks to bolt in there or outer CV joint pots without the guts. Something has to bolted in there to keep the bearing together.
Click to expand...
Nah, I've been driving without axles or stubs for some time now. My 02 rwd came that way
 
My belief (with nothing to go on except a few data points) is that GM made one hub bearing part number for both 2WD and 4WD vehicles, and THEIR unit is OK in both applications. And except for the 2WD version of the SS, none of the 2WD trucks came with the stub axle installed. I think the 2WD SS had the stub because some test driver tore a wheel off at the skid track.

For the AFTERMARKET parts suppliers, Michigan bearing (who I used once, but they didn't hold up to my offroad abuse) has separate part numbers for 2WD and 4WD. I think this is because the 4WD can be made cheaper since the bearing halves have the assistance of the CV stub to hold them together. And therefore a 2WD unit can be used in either application.

But since I won't use Michigan anymore (Timkens only from now on) I lost interest in the details of the design. Sorry. I'm usually a hound dog on this sort of thing.
 
When I looked up front hub assemblies the other day, it looked to me like both OEM and the Timken set they had were compatible with both 2 and 4 wheel drive. OEM specifically stated it was.
 
I was going on personal experience with my '00 Jimmy 4x4. For whatever reason, I had taken out the from axle shafts (can't remember the original reason). Half way through the job, I remembered that I had to pick up my kids from daycare so I slapped it all back together minus the axles. Well, just blocks from my house in a slow curve, my right wheel fell off with the hub, brake disk and caliper attached. The hub just slid right out of the bearing and broke the ears off my spindle holding the brake caliper. So all this cost me a tow, spindle and a taxi ride to get my kids.

So you guys with the non-SS 2WD trucks don't have the stub axle? So if all bearing suppliers except Michigan Bearing use the same number for both, should be safe then? There must have been a major change from the last generation.
 
Mooseman said:
I was going on personal experience with my '00 Jimmy 4x4. For whatever reason, I had taken out the from axle shafts (can't remember the original reason). Half way through the job, I remembered that I had to pick up my kids from daycare so I slapped it all back together minus the axles. Well, just blocks from my house in a slow curve, my right wheel fell off with the hub, brake disk and caliper attached. The hub just slid right out of the bearing and broke the ears off my spindle holding the brake caliper. So all this cost me a tow, spindle and a taxi ride to get my kids.

So you guys with the non-SS 2WD trucks don't have the stub axle? So if all bearing suppliers except Michigan Bearing use the same number for both, should be safe then? There must have been a major change from the last generation.
Click to expand...

The three bolts in the "triangle" formation the backside hold the wheel hub assembly (and by extension, the brake and tire) to the suspension components.

The 35mm nut in the center on the outside holds the CV to the hub. I'm not sure that the CV actually helps retain the assembly, if so wouldn't there be bearings on the backside (or are there? :undecided:) to allow sideways force from the CV/"stub" to be translated to the mounting?

In fact, some YouTuber already did the remove-the-shafts fix! Note that he mentions removing some sort of stub from the CV axle and placing it back in the hub. This could be accomplished (if it's needed) by putting the part back in like you were getting the CV axle run back through the hub, and using the 35mm to secure it back in place.

The video is regular redneck quality, but it shows what needs shown somewhat at least.

[video=youtube;XD6g29lavdo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XD6g29lavdo[/video]

Edit: I also watched this video (00 Jimmy hub replacement). It does look rather similar. I guess the solution would be to gather the "stubs" off the CV axle during disassembly to use when putting everything back together? It does indeed seem to be an important step, other forums (one talking about a 94 S10/Jimmy in particular) also mentioned put the "stubs" gathered off the axle ends back in to prevent the wheels from coming off.

[video=youtube;FjnOWqALlCc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjnOWqALlCc[/video]
 
the roadie said:
My belief (with nothing to go on except a few data points) is that GM made one hub bearing part number for both 2WD and 4WD vehicles, and THEIR unit is OK in both applications. And except for the 2WD version of the SS, none of the 2WD trucks came with the stub axle installed. I think the 2WD SS had the stub because some test driver tore a wheel off at the skid track.

For the AFTERMARKET parts suppliers, Michigan bearing (who I used once, but they didn't hold up to my offroad abuse) has separate part numbers for 2WD and 4WD. I think this is because the 4WD can be made cheaper since the bearing halves have the assistance of the CV stub to hold them together. And therefore a 2WD unit can be used in either application.

But since I won't use Michigan anymore (Timkens only from now on) I lost interest in the details of the design. Sorry. I'm usually a hound dog on this sort of thing.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the info on the axles and bearings.

Could you tell me if there is a way to take out the front drive shaft or is that not possible since it is an AWD system that doesn't have a selector switch on the dash???

Is there any way to make the encoder motor (I think that is what it is called) on the transfer case go to 2WD and then pull the fuse or disconnect the electrical from it to make it not try to shift to AWD with the shaft out?

Illogic sent a video of what I would like to do, but at the end it even said that it might not work with AWD vehicles...


IllogicTC said:
The three bolts in the "triangle" formation the backside hold the wheel hub assembly (and by extension, the brake and tire) to the suspension components.

The 35mm nut in the center on the outside holds the CV to the hub. I'm not sure that the CV actually helps retain the assembly, if so wouldn't there be bearings on the backside (or are there? :undecided:) to allow sideways force from the CV/"stub" to be translated to the mounting?

In fact, some YouTuber already did the remove-the-shafts fix! Note that he mentions removing some sort of stub from the CV axle and placing it back in the hub. This could be accomplished (if it's needed) by putting the part back in like you were getting the CV axle run back through the hub, and using the 35mm to secure it back in place.

The video is regular redneck quality, but it shows what needs shown somewhat at least.

[video=youtube;XD6g29lavdo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XD6g29lavdo[/video]

Edit: I also watched this video (00 Jimmy hub replacement). It does look rather similar. I guess the solution would be to gather the "stubs" off the CV axle during disassembly to use when putting everything back together? It does indeed seem to be an important step, other forums (one talking about a 94 S10/Jimmy in particular) also mentioned put the "stubs" gathered off the axle ends back in to prevent the wheels from coming off.

[video=youtube;FjnOWqALlCc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjnOWqALlCc[/video]
Click to expand...


Thanks for the redneck video... Made me feel right at home... :crazy:
 
In theory- even with the front driveshaft removed... what harm would come if the AWD clutch did engage? It would simply spin the tailshaft (frontshaft?) the exact same speed as the rear shaft. With no load, or binding, i can't really see how this would throw a code or cause any damage at all. I'm pretty sure that with the fluid in the transfer case that front shaft would never remain perfectly still---- the viscous properties of the fluid would always have it spinning somewhat.

I know you don't like speculation on GMTnation- but just think about it.
 
The NP 126 AWD programming in the TCCM doesn't have a true 2HI mode where the clutches are totally retracted. In the NP226 A4WD mode, when the front and back are spinning at the same RPM and there's no wheel spin, the torque bias is to send only 5% of the torque forward. I'd guess the AWD system is similar. 5% torque boas is enough to guarantee the front driveshaft (or its stub) is turning nicely without depending on fluid viscosity.
 
cachestalker said:
Here is some back info on how I was informed of the problem... (keep in mind, this is my wife's description to me) She came home from work and told me that a few days ago when she was turning hard left that it felt like the front wheels were binding and she could her some thumping noise and all of a sudden a loud pop... (So now it is the weekend, 3 days after she had the issue) So I go out and jack up all 4 wheels, turn the left front tire and nothing else turns... I start the truck, put it drive and both prop shafts turn, rear wheels turn, but neither front wheels turn... That is when I noticed the oil leak, so I took out the plug and stuck my finger in the hole and could not touch grease at all... I filled it up, but the damage was already done...

I know I'm an idiot for not noticing the leak earlier, but the wife and I work different shifts and basically only see each other on the weekend...

Anyway, thanks for replying and all the info...
Click to expand...

It sounds more like your vehicle was in 4-hi mode instead of having a blown differential. It still may have a worn unit bearing, that is rather common on the TB platform, especially if the prior owner replaced one with less than top-of-the-line parts like Timken.

The front end WILL growl, pop, steer funny, etc., if in 4-hi on dry pavement. Those are symptoms of driveline bind due to cornering with the front and rear locked in. Check and make sure your switch is in 2-hi before spending money...
 
You know now that I think of it it sounds like AWD gets the shaft. They get a better front-axle assembly (since it doesn't disconnect), but having the clutches partially-engaging all the time is part of what makes the 226 a turd when left in it's wannabe-AWD mode, wouldn't the 126 suffer similar issues?
 
the roadie said:
I've thought the same thing, and never could propose a theory. Just too few AWD owners in our population I think, to get a good sense of the reliability data.
Click to expand...

I wonder if someone who's got a few elbows rubbed around GM dealerships could shed a little more light on the issue, since they probably see plenty of folks who have AWD but don't come on here. As far as I know, the 126 is pretty much the 226 without the advantage of being able to select anything besides A4WD. Found some PDFs that show exploded views of the insides (rather than the stuff the service manuals on here show us). Looks just about the same to me, minus the high/low and front-disengage functionality.

NVG226 (lawless-vegas.com)
NVG126 (lawless-vegas.com)

Some guy's personal website. He has an Isuzu, apparently. Has a whole section dedicated to it - Here's the Isuzu's page. Even has a list of problems he's had (selectable on the left of the screen). Now I have some reading material for tonight :yes:

Edit: I just took a deeper look. This guy has TONS of manuals regarding the Ascender. I think I found a treasure trove.

Edit of an edit: In the transmission section he's got the 4L60E manual complete with color photos of fluid flow. :biggrin:
 
Those manuals look awfully familiar :cool:
 
I meant to say that they look like they came from the same place... Same formatting, headers, etc.
 
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